I know something you don’t know…

One mount is only the beginning.

I have a confession to make. I’ve been responsible for a rash of Trial of the Crusader 5-man runs on the Shadowburn battlegroup. It doesn’t sound like too horrible a crime, does it? I actually like the place. It has three bosses, minimal trash – so quite a few opportunities for vendored epics and enchanting materials.

That’s not why I am doing it, though. You see, I queue up for ToC every day (sometimes on more than one character) because I am chasing delicious Champion’s Seals. Since I’ve been spending more time pursuing “before Cataclysm” goals, I realized that I’ve been neglecting the Argent Tournament dailies. Because I like pets, and mounts. And tabards…did I mention tabards?

A quick mental calculation the other day was too depressing… Not counting any tabards at all, I’m going to need something upwards of six HUNDRED Champion’s Seals to get all of the stuff the Silver Covenant and the various factions have to offer.

That’s where ToC comes in. The dailies are great, and I do those too – and since I’m queuing as DPS, I have time to wait. I queue up for the run while I’m netting snobolds, hurling spears at a kraken, or whatever else.

What I hadn’t counted on was the interesting study in pugs it has been to queue for the same instance repeatedly many days in a row.

First of all, I am gaining a new appreciation for comparisons between tanks. Millya is an arcane mage, so her threat grows by LEAPS and bounds (when I don’t have my mage posse with me, which I do as often as I can, because, hello – have you seen the buff it gives mages? But I digress). So the tanks I’ve had have run the gamut. There’s been…

  • The one who said “Can someone else mark these plz I don’t remember”
  • The one who zoned in and said “this place? f*** me”
  • The one who apparently hadn’t found his swipe button and left my hapless moonkin to tank the rogue for a full twenty seconds, even though I sprinted towards him hooting and panicking so that he could get aggro on the thing until I went down in a heap of chubby feathers. There may or MAY NOT have been Starfall involved. That’s all I will say.
  • The one who gave me Vigilance and proceeded to be absolutely awesome. Her aggro was rock solid. I don’t think I could have pulled if I tried. As someone who has grown rather accustomed to the ominous KABOOM of encroaching threat on Omen, it’s pretty nice to just chill out and hit as hard as I like without fear. (By the way, whoever thinks DPS is “relaxing” and easy clearly had their Omen sounds turned off a long time ago, doesn’t run Omen, or just doesn’t care. DPSing can be really stressful for me with a tank who has trouble versus my threat. And no, it’s not always the fault of the DPS. Voss teases me about having my “Omen underneath Recount,” but I usually put it front and centre, right under my feet. If “Don’t pull” means just standing there for a good ten seconds not attacking anything, I’m fairly sure the “It’s not me, it’s you” adage kicks in.
  • The one who said to the healer, “How confident in ur healing are you?”
    “Pretty confident, why?”
    “I’m going to pull all of these”
    “…I don’t think you should.”

So I’ve had some really interesting tanks and groups. I’d gotten out of the habit of pugging much (on any of my characters) so it’s been fun, even if I am seeing the same instance each day. It seems that many people don’t like it, so I feel vaguely guilty. I’m sure that most of them are assigned ToC because I queued for it specifically, and for them it is a random. I never pipe up and tell them that, though.

Instead I say, “Oh look, it’s ToC! Hey, at least it’s a quick one!” Sometimes feigning ignorance is the best policy. (It’s only a white lie!)

With at least six hundred emblems to go, you can bet I’m not going to tell Moonrunner and its associated servers that they’ll be spending weeks in ToC on my account.

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43 responses to “I know something you don’t know…

  1. Thanks Vidyala, you’ve inspired me to keep going with the daies at least :) I’m a sucker for mounts and pets as well, especially if they’re achieveable rather than grinding hoping one will drop.
    I’ve had a guy run in and pull everything too, but he didn’t ask first. A wipe ensued, and he was all “WTF?” I said “I’d rather you didn’t do that, I’m not very well geared” and he replied, “I always do it like that!” thanks mate, way to make the healer feel great.
    Aren’t pugs fun :P

    • Ooh, I hate it when tanks do that. It’s not just a matter of the healer being able to keep up, it’s the fact that you’ll have three mind-controlling mobs on the loose at once if you pull all the trash in one go. That’s a recipe for disaster if I ever saw one, and tanks who think this is a great idea immediately raise my “clueless” alarms…

      • Yep, mind-controlling mobs are a pain, which is why I always mark them with a skull, yet people still AoE the groups of 3 down like it doesn’t matter. Most of the time we get by, but sheesh, pulling all 3 at once is just asking for a wipe unless you have smart DPS who know how to CC (hah, as if).

      • He ended up pulling 2/3 of the groups at one time after insisting “I always pull them all at once.” We didn’t wipe, though! In fact I haven’t wiped once since starting to run the place – I have died, mostly as a mage casualty in the last phase of the Black Knight. I think healers sometimes forget I’m wearing magic toilet paper. Even Gift of the Naaru couldn’t save me. :D

    • That’s nothing to do with you, Angelya, and everything to do with him blindly assuming everyone is the same. I’ve healed tanks that did the “let’s pull it all thing!” and with all the casters, and lightwells, and mind controls, it’s just stupid. The dailies are pretty fun at first, I was tired of them awhile back and probably will be again after a few weeks. But like you said it’s much better than relying on the RNG! :D

  2. It’s one of the best things that can happen for the daily… unless someone starts the full RP crap… but that didn’t happen in eons. :)

    • See, that’s what I think! Who wouldn’t like to get ToC as their daily? But apparently some people don’t like it, because of the jousting – which is over in about five minutes. It’s still super fast.

  3. When you said you were going for mounts, I didn’t know you meant mounts. Now that I think about it, I thought I heard drool when I mentioned that Q had gotten the Sunreaver Dragonhawk…..

    How are you ever going to find the time to try to nail Arthas in Heroic-10 Man? Or hang out with your Hunter?

    • We actually have more or less given up on the Let’s Kill Heroic Lich King train. I’ll probably write about it a bit later. Raiding has been pretty rough this summer unfortunately. :(

  4. I must admit I’ve been that tank that ran in and tried to tank all the trash… once

    But I have an excuse (and I apologised for it too) – I had been running normal ToC over and over and over and over trying to get that damn Black Heart… and then heroic ToC dropped for my random and I just proceeded as per normal forgetting I was doing heroic.

    Doing the dailies I was all set to buy the paladin mount… and ended up buying the heirloom chest – I regret that now as 40 EoTs is so easy to get. But at the time I was too busy still trying to gear up both specs.

    • Yeah, I remember when Champion’s Seals seemed so much less obtainable than Emblems of Triumph. :( I can’t blame you there! I may have bought the heirloom chest, too. The paladin mount is really cool, I forgot about that!

  5. The one who said “Can someone else mark these plz I don’t remember”

    That is totally me. I need to have been to a place about 100 times before I remember the way, or how to mark, or boss strategies. I can just about manage the logistics of Nexus and Naxx by now. =p

    • Haha, sorry Iris. To be honest, in this day and age it doesn’t really matter what order you kill them in. It used to be a topic that inspired a lot of back and forth and even disagreements in pugs. “No, you have to kill the SHAMAN first, he heals, no the rogue hits harder!” But nowadays, if you just designate a skull, x, and whatever else, it’s going to be fine and they’ll just die.

      • It still matters in groups with low dps, though, which are surprisingly common even now (though I think in some cases it’s a tabbed out problem rather than gear). A low dps group can do any order too, as long as someone is willing to kick the shaman when he heals.

        That said, few people kick at all, and NOBODY switches target to kick. So you might as well kill the shaman first just as a matter of policy. :)

      • My main is a lock. Why would I run the daily anymore with him? He sits on 401 frosts he can’t use.

        Main hybrids might still run the daily because they can collect multiple gear sets. But if they are good players there is a high chance that they will queue as heal or tank for faster invites.

        All that’s left are alts which most people, me included, play much worse then their main. And they have worse gear then what we had on our main when we started farming frosts with them. That’s why the current DD in the LFD suck. Because the system pushes all good DD out of their role.

        You should have 3 roles to queue as DD (unscientific made up numbers).
        - DD
        - 4k+ DD
        - 6k+ DD
        and each group gets one of each. That could keep the better DD in the queue as they would queues comparable to healers. The current system forces everyone to heal or tank if their class allows it.

  6. Can I just say how much I hate tanks who says “How confident in your healing are you?” I’m pretty damn confident thank you but all the confidence in the world won’t heal through that amount of stupid. Whenever somebody asks me that I’ve taken to answering “I’m under-confident and wussy; in fact you have no hope in getting out of here alive.”

    • I love that response.

    • ^ This, in spades.

      I’ve contributed to the pug-tank problem on more than one occasion by being able to heal through a lot of stupid. There are limits, however. At the risk of being quite arrogant, I’d like to believe that if I can’t keep you alive in a heroic at this point, it’s on your tab, not mine. :)

    • Priceless. I think most quality tanks don’t ask, they observe. After the first few pulls you can get some sense of whether the healer is struggling or dozing behind the keyboard because they’re so bored, and then adjust accordingly. (Note, I am not a tank so I don’t do these things, but I think that tanks do. Maybe.)

      • I completely agree, that tanks should start slow and observe, and if things are a breeze, then they can feel free to increase the volume of pulls, etc.

        However, ToC is the only time where I think the tank could be justified in asking, since there literally isn’t an opportunity to observe on previous trash packs and see how well the healer is keeping up. Granted, it WAS sort of a condescending way of asking, but at least the tank asked before just outright pulling them all! (It’s kind of sad when pug etiquette has been reduced to the level of “well, at least x” or “it could be worse!” :P)

      • Funny enough, I have a story about that – that also happened in ToC! I was newly transferred to MR and hadn’t run very much as a resto druid in awhile (and not ToC in aaages). Anyway, I stood by an exploding ghoul and died – my bad – and a warlock started bitching me out. “Why would you do that?” he said, and “How stupid are you?” Instead of defending myself, I said, “You know, I screwed up, but you didn’t have to be so rude about it.”

        In reply, he said, “Don’t be so thin-skinned, I could have been swearing at you.”

        Really? In some people’s minds that is a logical defense – don’t get so upset, it could have been worse, I could have been swearing at you! Haha. It’s since become a joke I make. ;p

      • I think it’s hilarious that the lock –of all people– would complain.

      • You’ll be able to know how good the healer is just from recount of the jousting. Good players are always on the top of the event.

      • > I think most quality tanks don’t ask, they observe.

        I do. And it’s easy to be able to identify what the heal can handle. But it’s not so easy to identify what the healer enjoys handling. Some enjoy being pushed to the edge, some hate it and some let you die because they can (which for me ends the run immediately as I can’t run with a healer I don’t trust).

      • Naw, my guild’s main tank is super geared and super skilled (when he’s not pulling pranks on us) and he regularly DIES in jousting. Sure, I’d say that if someone is good at jousting they probably know what they are doing in the rest of the game, but I wouldn’t say the reverse is true.

      • If he dies in jousting it just means that he has aggro from all because he’s probably doing more damage then the rest of the group. :)

  7. I ran those dailies for about three months straight to satisfy my heirloom cravings, with a lot of runs as DPS through the circus tent.

    And then there’s the pony… And the tabard…

    And now the mounts. They’re so pretty, but I’m still pretty burned out on the dailies grind. Perhaps some visits to ToC will help.

    • I find it helps break up the monotony. The rest of it is so fast now that it’s not as onerous as it once was – I can solo Chillmaw on any of my characters, which I didn’t used to be able to do at all! Maybe like me you’ll be able to get back to the grind without getting too aggravated by it all! :)

  8. To be fair to the tank who let you deal with the rogue, I have been known to “not notice” when a boomkin pulls aggro with Starfall before I’ve even got a chance get a solid fix on the mobs. Same goes for warlocks opening up with Seed of Corruption. I dread those big purple crack-bang noises :S

  9. Your tale somewhat reminds me of my multiple treks through FoS to get the Needle Encrusted Scorpion for my DK. I’d queue for a random and if I didn’t get FoS, I’d queue for FoS specifically. Day after day after day….. Finally on attempt 44, I got it.

    Oddly (because I’m just wierd that way), I still love the place and queue for it just for funsies and a shot at a Battered Hilt. It’s quick, easy and if you have a fail PuG, it’s only 2 bosses, so it’ll be over before you know it.

    Also, I love ToC! I haven’t done a darn thing with my Champions Seals though. I ought to look into that.

  10. I love getting ToC as my random. I always like trying to outdo my personal bests on the jousting – it’s like a minigame! And you get Abyss Crystals! And a chance at the Faceroller achievement! And I get to use Tranquility on the Black Knight! ToC is awesome. :D

  11. I have run reg toc and htoc at least 100 times. I used to tank it on weekends for new 80s in my guild prior to the dungeon finder patch.
    The predictability of it allows for really excellent performance interrupt casters, catch Eadric’s hammer, CC (or death grip) the single ghoul the black knight initially summons that usually chews on clothies, redirect threat to the tank and aoe the black knight’s AoD, then blow your cooldowns on the ghost. Mission Accomplished.

    That is unless somebody pulls all the trash on the second boss for the tank. That is a recipe for disaster.

  12. Your server is in Shadowburn? No kidding. I’ll never see you in a random, obviously, but maybe we’ll spar in a BG one day.

    • You never know, we do have lowbie Horde characters on Moonrunner (just one). If you ever see Mildred the Undead priest, you’ll know it’s me.

      Otherwise I can just imagine the glee if you ever see one of my Draenei in a BG and mop the floor with me, haha.

  13. I totally forgot that you could get champion seals in ToC!
    These are more valuable to me than Frosts (which I have a multitude of now) so I haven’t been bothering with the daily heroic for a couple months.
    But the seals! So many mounts…
    But I assume I’ll be able to use your trick later – for now I must concentrate on the mounts that are about to disappear (I’m looking at you Baron Rivendore).

    • ^^^ I had no idea you could SPEND seals, and on vanity stuff! I got to 80 just as ICC hit and I was too busy trying to figure out how to 80 and how to emblem. I figured seals (like everything else weird on the currency tab) were outdated and not worth figuring out!

  14. There was discussion in my main’s guild last night about Zul’Gurub going away. Apparently a blue mentioned it in the forums.

    If you need anything there, you’d better go and get it.

  15. I started to work on the mounts just about 10 days ago. I might only have the stamina to pick up the flying mounts. I just don’t know. /sweatypanic

    • I’m actually frozen with indecision right now so I know exactly what you mean – I have one flying mount and enough emblems to buy the second – but will I be able to keep up the emblem gathering if I go from 150 to zero emblems in one day?!

      Also, what about the unicorn?! Maybe the unicorn would be better…

  16. Having a Newly Minted Pally Tank, I love me some ToC.

  17. I loved the article and not only because it made me laugh in real life but I know exactly where you are now. Just started doing quests there again to get all the seals I need. I am 552 away from getting “most” of the stuff I want.

    The one with the healer reminded me of one about the same thing.

    ToC 5-man

    Tank: I am going to pull all these mobs.
    Healer: I don’t think that is a good idea. It is going to be hell to keep you up.
    Tank: Don’t worry, look at the hunters gear, they won’t last 10 seconds.
    Me(Hunter): Can you hold that type of threat?
    Tank: You have Misdirect.
    Me(Hunter): It only lasts 4 seconds, after that you are on your own.
    Healer: So you want to try?
    Me(Hunter): Sure, what the hell.

    Tank pulls and gathers.
    I MD, fire 1 auto to activate it and drop a volley. Numbers flying everywhere. 5 seconds into the fight they all come for me. I die, healer dies, we all die. 19K DPS in a heroic because a tank could not hold aggro for even 1 second even with my MDs help. At least it was fun.

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